The Chemical Keys to Thanksgiving Dinner
“The Chemical Keys to Thanksgiving Dinner” A short presentation followed by Q&A with speaker Dr. Harold McGee, scientist and author of a regular column in the New York Times, The Curious Cook.
No Slides For This Presentation
Joy of Science: Food Chemistry Series
“A good meal must be as harmonious as a symphony and as well-constructed as a Norman cathedral.” Fernand Point, ‘Ma gastronomie’ (1897-1955). This can be said of Thanksgiving. Home cooked meals that traditionally took a full day and a host of hands to prepare now take just hours. So what have we lost with these age-old preparations? Chemistry. It’s in techniques like brining, marinating, basting, and slow cooking. It’s where seasons marry and interact – producing tender, succulent and flavorful dishes. Learn why old-fashioned, time-staking approaches to cooking still provide the best results.
You might also like: Top Five Chemistry Tips for the Kitchen with Guy Crosby!
Winners of the Book Giveaway!
Congratulations to our three winners of an autographed copy of Harold’s McGee’s latest book, Keys to Good Cooking!
Jennifer Shapiro
Kenneth Roche
Haim Grinspan (See the question below that made Haim a book winner and Harold’s response!)
What You Will Learn
- The pros and cons of brining your turkey
- The two kinds of turkey muscle and how they’re best cooked
- How heating rates affect the flavor of sweet potatoes
- Why traditional persimmon pudding is almost black, and how to make it persimmon-colored
- And much more…
Webinar Details
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011
Time: 2:00-3:00 pm ET
Fee: Free
Meet Your Experts
ACS member Harold McGee has been writing about the science of food and cooking for 30 years, and was recognized with the 2008 Grady-Stack Award for interpreting chemistry to the public. His encyclopedic book On Food & Cooking: The Science & Lore of the Kitchen is a standard text in culinary schools. His latest book, a cookbook companion, is Keys to Good Cooking: A Guide to Making the Best of Foods and Recipes. He also writes a column, “The Curious Cook,” for the New York Times.
Bill Courtney is the chef/owner of Cheese-ology Macaroni & Cheese, located in the University City Loop, just west of the city of St. Louis, Missouri. Following completion of his undergraduate degree in Chemistry at the University of Missouri – Columbia, Bill worked a short time as a Q.C. Chemist for ConvaTec. A shift in interest eventually took Bill to the The Genome Institute at Washington University, where he spent 9 years working with the leading genetic and genomic research scientists in the United States. In a radical move, Bill struck out on his own to open Cheese-ology, the culmination of years of a self-described “un-natural obsession” with Macaroni & Cheese. Open since June 2010, Cheese-ology Macaroni & Cheese features over 15 varieties of Macaroni & Cheese to satisfy any Mac & Cheese craving.
The Fine Print
ACS Webinars™ does not endorse any products or services. The views expressed in this presentation are those of the presenters and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the American Chemical Society.
Haim’s Question:
Mr. McGee made a comment regarding to the optimal internal temperature of a cooked bird being at around 150F. It is often taught that poultry should be cooked to an internal temperature of about 165F according to HACCP/ServSafe guidelines. Is this not correct? Would it be hazardous to cook it to 150F rather than 165F or is this just designed for restaurant and manufacturer safety parameters?
Harold’s Response:
This question is an excellent one because it highlights the difference between cooking for deliciousness and cooking for safety. I specified 150 degrees in the turkey breast, and 160 or above in the leg, because these are temperatures at which the two kinds of meat are done but still juicy. The USDA specifies 165 degrees because this is a temperature at which most microbes that cause foodborne illness are killed instantly. The common food microbes are also killed at 150 degrees. It just takes longer for their numbers to be sufficiently reduced–on the order of 5 minutes, a period that will be maintained in a roast as large as a turkey. And a turkey that has been handled properly won’t have microbes deep in its tissues anyway–they’ll be on the surfaces, where the temperature will be higher and for much longer than 5 minutes. The USDA guideline puts safety first, and produces a dry turkey breast. My recommendation balances safety and quality, and produces a moist turkey breast. For more about balancing safety and quality in home cooking, visit the website of Dr. O. Peter Snyder at http://www.hi-tm.com/homeprep/titl-tabl.html.
Concerning mashed potatoes:
I understand that the more the cooked potatoes are manipulated the more free starch is produced. Extreme handling (such as a food processor) produces very sticky mashed potatoes. What is the best way to get very fine (no lumps)mashed potatoes and still keep them airy and light?
Look forward for more of “science meets kitchen” webinars… Thanks!!
It was a very good seminar. I want to ask you to help me get the presentation slides
Thank you for the informative seminar. I will be cooking my first Thanksgiving turkey this year and I feel more prepared than before. I had a question about vegan alternatives. I plan to make a stuffed tofu turkey for the vegetarians and vegans who will be joining for dinner. Tofu can be very bland. Do you have any recommendations for herbs or spices that I can add to the tofu?
Thank you!
My dad makes rice stuffing every year. He usually cooks the rice first, but makes sure to be a little short on the water. It looks similar to the way he cooks it when making fried rice with fresh rice. I absolutely love the taste of his rice stuffing after it’s cooked instead the turkey, but it always ends up a little mushy. This means leftover stuffing is even mushier. I’ve tried to make the rice stuffing, but I decided to leave the rice uncooked. I thought that that the juices from the turkey was enough to moisten the rice. It was an epic fail. I was wondering if there is a way I can get nicely cooked rice instead my turkey. Will soaking the rice overnight be sufficient to put in the turkey without precooking the rice? Thanks a lot.
In case you wanted to know, his rice stuffing consists of rice, butter, diced onions, chopped celery, and chopped black cloud ear fungus.
Mr. McGee made a comment regarding to the optimal internal temperature of a cooked bird being at around 150F. It is often taught that poultry should be cooked to an internal temperature of about 165F according to HACCP/ServSafe guidelines. Is this not correct? Would it be hazardous to cook it to 150F rather than 165F or is this just designed for restaurant and manufacturer safety parameters?
I’m an organic chemistry professor with an interest in food chemistry, spurred significantly by “On Food and Cooking”. I attended the symposium in Harold’s honor at the ACS meeting a couple years ago in Philly, and learned enough to get an upper-level (organic chemistry required) food chemistry course going at my institution, Hobart and William Smith Colleges (Geneva, NY). I’d love to find a way to integrate an appearance by Harold, electronic or in person, into my course, which I’m teaching for the second time this coming spring, 2012.
hello,
Thank you for your nice webinar. Oil, butter will make the outside of turkey brown and give a nicer look and better taste. I like to eat it. It is said that acrylamide forms when the skin of chicken and turkey gets brown. what do you think about it?
I enjoyed learning about the techniques to best bring out the flavors while cooking certain dishes such as reaching just the right temp for the different kinds of meats and the slow cooking of sweet potatoes to bring out more of the sugar. Are there any simple techniques to cooking Thanksgiving pies besides mixing in a bunch of sugar? For example, is there a simple way to turn tart cherris into the best pie possible?
I went to Amazon to look into getting, “Keys to Good Cooking”, and I found this review excerpt there,”…No saucepan is left unturned in McGee’s quest to explain the mysteries and ALCHEMY of the kitchen…” I wil never understand why the general public uses “alchemy” and “chemistry” as interchangeable words. I am so glad that I heard Dr. McGee give that great presentation, and changed my mind, because that review would probably have ruined the book for me otherwise! Thanks again for the great presentation on the CHEMISTRY and Thanksgiving.
Follow-up question:
I am an enthusiastic and experienced cook.
The current state of the kitchen in my home leaves a lot to be desired in terms of workspace and physical organization of the appliances. I have plans for upgrading it soon.
Until then, how can I make best use of a less than optimum kitchen for a big deal meal like Thanksgiving?
I recognize that I’m asking for an opinion and that you don’t have a lot of information about my particular situation. But I’d welcome any advice you may choose to offer.
Thanks,
Frank
Since the webinar was entitled “The Chemistry of Thanksgiving Dinner,” for those of us on a low-sodium diet and are interested in brining; have you or anyone else determined the approximate amount of sodium absorbed per pound of turkey during the brining process?
Q: Favorite spices – traditional poultry (mix or individual like thyme, etc.) or turmeric, basil, or Italian (mix or individual like oregano); and where preferred – which on skin, or others better on meat itself (not lost on skin- to dog – might make dog sick/puke)or are certain spices mix or individual condemned/inappropriate for flavor clash or chemistry (browning, rancidity, or …)? according to your experience or food chemistry knowledge or colleague expertise !
Around Thanksgiving time we have two options for turkey – injected with salt/water (bargain price / loss leader) and fresh or fresh frozen (high price). Any difference from the standpoint of flavor of cooked bird? Have you ever done a cost / benefit analysis of the two options?
I greatly admire Harold McGee’s approach to food. As I begin my career as an educator of the sciences I am finding that not everyone is as excited about chemistry as I am, yet the love of food is universal. I was hoping Harold could provide a few comments on how to better teach chemistry through the science of food.
I missed the last five minutes because I lost my internet connection. When will this be on the web? If I was lucky enough to win a book would I be notified? I really enjoyed it and hated that I missed the end of the discussion. I noted that it would continue on the FB page but its been 30 min and I don’t see anything there.
The webinar mentioned the possibility of obtaining a copy of harold McGee’s book by posting a question. Where should this question be posted?
I’m curious about Harold McGee’s thoughts on using the roasted turkey carcass for soup. I’ve always understood that soup turns out best from bones that haven’t already been cooked (and thus exuded some or most of their gelatin), but I married into a family whose tradition is to pick the meat off the bones and then use the bones to make a soup. My preference in making soup is to start with fresh turkey meat on the bone to get all the protein possible into the broth. What’s your take, Harold? Thanks!!!
Any way we could get a link to a suggested turkey preparation recipe?
I want the best of both worlds, a perfectly cooked turkey and stuffing that has been cooked in the bird! As an alternative to overcooking your turkey in order to get the stuffing up to a safe temperature, can you remove the stuffing after the bird has reached it’s ideal cooking temp and then bring the stuffing up to safe cooking temp (160 F) in a separate pot on the stove? I suppose you would want to do that a little before the bird was done so that you could place it back in the oven for another 30 mins or so to bring the interior walls of the bird up to temp also. Does this seem reasonable?
So far, how many turkeys have you prepared and cooked yourself? What’s the weight (turkey only) of the largest one you ever prepared? Do you have a most memoriable turkey you prepared and why it was so special?
Thank you for the valuable information about how to cook the turkey; especially some of the background theories.
Also, I wanted to know if there is a ‘recomended’ type of stuffing? I have tried many, some are sweet, others are more on the bread side…so some are more on the sugar side and others on the starch side. Does this makes a significant difference on being cooked with the turkey (or not)?
Harold,
How do you feel about the gargantuan shape of turkeys in North America compared to their more modestly sized European cousins? Could one argue that, in this particular situation, quantity may negatively impact quality (i.e. taste and flavor)?
Thank you for a very informative Webinar.
David
Is it best to roast a turkey in the oven breast side up or breast side down?
Deb Sunderland
How to prepare a turkey (roasted, smoked, deep-fat fried) remains a hotly debated subject. My question is, “Do the chemical changes that occur while cooking the turkey depend on the method or are the differences between methods related to the spices and flavorings used in the different methods?”
I learned a lot from your presentation and discussion today. I just started cooking and there were many good tips. One thing I was wondering about is have you used cooking to explain chemistry to general audiences? I do demos for kids in elementary school and I am trying to things that students are familiar with to introduce science and chemistry to students in Grades 5-7. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Harold; what is you’re favorite stuffing recipe, can you share? I love a good sage seasoned stuffing but can use some more tips.
Thanks,
Bryan Lemmenes
Stoughton, WI
What are the keys to getting everything cooked, served and cleaned up so not to create a breeding place for bacteria that will cause a food borne illness on Thanksgiving?
Question for Harold: When baking whole sweet potatoes, does it make any difference if they are wrapped in foil or placed directly on the oven rack?
Will the addition of fresh thyme to either the turkey cavity or the stuffing inhibit bacterial growth?
I have twin 9 yr old nephews with Celiac disease and are vegetarians. I would like to provide a tasty Thanksgiving meal for them. Can you provide me with some ideas on a healthy fulfilling meal and the best products to use.
I sat through the webinar.It would been much delightful to see the speakers and live show.My question is
Is there any chemical relation between turkey and cranberry sauce?What makes this pair so delicious?
Thanks
Sri
Do you cook the turkey with breast up or down? Some advocate the breast down approach since the juices run down to keep the meat moist. Do you agree?
Is it better to roast the turkey uncovered (bare) or use one of the “turkey bags” that are commercially available?
So many things are going nanoscale, is there any of this in cooking and do you have an opinion on the safety of it in things we injest or inhale purposely or accidentally?
Do you have a prefered method for preparing brussel sprouts? My sister in law always asks me to bring the “sprout” dish and the dish never seems to be quite right. Got any suggestions?
Two question.
(1) I find the white turkey meat tasteless, and understand the darker meat is higher in calorie, if so, would advise how best to serve both in most appetizingly?!
(2) I find a variety of sweet potatos such as Korean ones in the market, and would like to know which variety contains the most nutrients when backed?
Thanks in advance for your response.
How does God help you to have a good cooking?
Thanks for the entertaining talk, Harold! My question:
Is it possible to cook a turducken (a chicken stuffed into a duck, which is then stuffed into a turkey) to get the best tastes out of the successive meats?
With the complexities of cooking just a turkey to get a pleasing taste, I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to cook the perfect turducken!
Hi. What is it about beans that makes it so difficult to make them just right? Do you have any suggestions for making excellent beans for Thanksgiving? Thank you!
Enjoyed the webinar. My question for the book giveaway has to do with boiling a turkey. In a thanksgiving special last year on the Food Network show, “Diners, Drive-ins and Dives,” the host visited a hotspot where they boil their turkey’s. While this eliminates crispy skin and stuffing, the bird is said to be very moist. What would be the chemistry issues associated with this technique, and what kind of seasoning levels (relative to the oven) would be needed to infuse flavor?
You mentioned how to make atender pie crust in the webinar but I wonder if you could comment on the use of eggs in the pie crust dough. I have seen recipes calling for this. What role would the protein play?
Thank you
In the webinar, you mentioned how to make a tender pie crust. I have seen recipes that call for egg in the pie crust dough; could you comment on this? What effect does it have on dough quality and why?
Homemade bread is always a part of our Thanksgiving meal. I recently heard of salt rising bread – and hear that is very challenging to make. I was wondering why the name? All bread has some salt. This bread doesn’t have more than most other recipes. What is the history behind this bread, its name, and are there any tricks to make it work?
Submitting a question…I listened to you talk about brining the bird and the effect of osmosis. I tend to inject my bird with buttery salt solutions (store bought) which does keep the bird from drying. I don’t soak my bird. Is the moisture drawn out and then drawn back in (opposite of what you described)? Also, do you recommend these solutions?
I teach a college level science course for non science majors called The Spice Of Life. It is an interdisciplinary course that integrates biology, chemistry, physics, sociology, nutrition, sustainability, etc, and uses “On Food and Cooking” as the textbook. I think my students would really love the answer to this question, (as would I) whether or not we are chosen for the free book. My question is:
If you were teaching my class, what is the single most important story about food that you would want my students to hear?
I promise to pass on the story…or you can always come tell them for yourself! Thank you for your amazing books.
Tammy Tobin
What’s the key to perfectly creamy mashed potatoes? Is there a particular type that works better than others? Russet, Yukon Gold, Purple?
Does preparing a turkey in a roasting bag have any advantages? How is the result different?
Question to enter signed book give away.
What are the principles behind roasting a turkey using an oven bag? Is this considered a good idea and are there any tips to make this approach better?
I enjoyed the presentation and learned some helpful hints for making my Thanksgiving dinner more flavorful.
question: Aside from the religious requirements what are your thoughts about Kosher turkeys? How does the salting process affect the flavor/moistness?
thank you
ilene